1/30/2012 8:49:02 AM
Kim Wahlgren
Administrator
Posts: 88
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Here's another comment that was left on an article:
We had a water leak in our wall from our ice maker. We had wood floors in our kitchen, pantry living area and dining room. We had to have a professional restoration company perform water remediation drying etc. About 50% of the wood flooring and subflooring was removed. Then, after a long drying process. We not only had the new flooring installed in the affected areas, we continued in our study, down the hall and into our master bedroom. Now, 7 short months later, we are having severe cupping and some cracking on not only the new flooring, but on the old flooring that has been down for 9 years. Please help us, what is the answer. the experts all say the readings are well within the normal range. None of them give the same reason for what they think is happening and none agree on the method of treatment.
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1/30/2012 10:31:59 AM
TDMAC
Posts: 528
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Kim we all Need more information! Was this over a concrete slab or wood sub floor? What kind of flooring was original and what was installed? How long was the dry out process? What is rh in the home? Was a membrane used under the new floor. Is is engineered or solid?
I cannot help with any ideas without more information???
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1/30/2012 10:49:07 AM
johannes
Posts: 154
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Also, is it actually cracking of the boards, or is it development of gaps between boards? Provide some images or a link to them. What part of the country?
Johannes.
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1/30/2012 11:03:52 AM
David Harrison
Moderator
Posts: 197
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On the surface without any data....I would suspect that there is still a leak somewhere.....especially if you are getting cupping in the dry season....one thing is for sure......there is more water in the wood than there was at the point of installation......question is....where did it come from.......someone needs to at least run a non-invasive moisture meter over the floor to try and find any "hot spots"......where it will be wetter at the point of entry......assuming that there is only one point of entry......at least you can rule the leak theory out by doing this.
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1/30/2012 12:33:59 PM
tulsa
Posts: 4
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TDMAC wrote:
Kim we all Need more information! Was this over a concrete slab or wood sub floor? What kind of flooring was original and what was installed? How long was the dry out process? What is rh in the home? Was a membrane used under the new floor. Is is engineered or solid?
I cannot help with any ideas without more information???
The install was a concrete slab with a wood sub floor. The original flooring was # 1 grade solid wood OAK as was the new install. Membrane was used over the new floor. The dry out was from April 2011 until install of June 2011. We have cupping, cracking of some boards as well as gaps between the boards. We live in Tulsa, OK. Atest was done showing the humidity levels within our home being within normal limits. A moisture test was done in a couple of places, but not all ove or in all rooms.
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1/30/2012 2:00:37 PM
David Harrison
Moderator
Posts: 197
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This will continue to be a mystery until an inspector can take the RH of the inside, the moisture content of the wood, the moisture content of the plywood subfloor and the moisture content of the slab......with all of that data......the pieces will start to make sense. With all due respect....the RH being normal doesn't give you enough information to really get to the issue of what is going on. Its all just physics and math.....but you have to get the data to properly analyze it. The only way the contractor could have really known that the floor was ready to install is from an analysis of all of the data....normal can be different from one environment to another.......get all of the data listed above and it may start to make sense.
edited by dharrison on 1/30/2012
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1/30/2012 4:33:07 PM
jfcwood
Posts: 64
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It sounds like it's time for you to call an NWFA certified inspector and pay him to analyze what's happening to your floor.
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1/30/2012 4:52:27 PM
TDMAC
Posts: 528
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Kim States that it is a concrete slab with a wood sub floor over the top. How attached? . Wow that is a situation right there for detailed Inspection examination! I can only speculate that the flood damaged the oak flooring and then penetrated the plywood 'sub-floor' over the concrete. The plywood was then dried out for a few months??
Is there still heavy moisture on the concrete at the bottom of that ply sub floor? Was that checked before another floor was installed over that previously wet plywood sub floor?
That sounds very questionable to me. An inspector with a probe meter should do some investigation on just who authorized that sub-floor over the concrete was dry and the slab was dry. Hmmmm
I have done many ply sub floor systems over concrete in my 40 years. Dry out of that sub floor, as explained is NOT an option; It should have been removed.
My 2 cents from the sketchy information here.
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1/30/2012 8:45:40 PM
grooving
Posts: 483
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I have to agree with TDMAC. It's been my experience out here that these "expert restoration company's" don't know wet wood from dry wood. Plus ad that it's over a slab. Slabs that have been wet from flooding can take three times longer to dry out than a newly poured slab.
I have literally run away from many of these type jobs. Most are insurance related.
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1/30/2012 9:33:57 PM
TDMAC
Posts: 528
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Grooving,
We are usually always on the same page on these exasperating situations. Maybe more will soon understand that it is not a simple game!!!
I just has a long discussion with an agent on how bad many insurance companies rely on the total misinformation on these corrupt "restoration companies."
They restore nothing when hardwood flooring is involved. Most are scam artists and insurance companies cant see the forest for the trees. A total waste of money! honestly many of them cause more greif than " restoration". Sorry to say!
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1/30/2012 10:59:07 PM
Selva Lee Tucker
Posts: 161
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Restorations' Restorations are keeping Inspectors Restored
edited by selvalee on 1/30/2012
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"Life is just too much damn fun to die"
slt
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1/30/2012 11:39:06 PM
TDMAC
Posts: 528
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YEAH SELVA Restored Rest orators are revealed resorption of total restoration and regulatory inspectors of resonators! I agree!!
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1/31/2012 8:05:05 AM
grooving
Posts: 483
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Looked at one where the insurance rep said do not pull up wood floor! The concrete for the bedrooms was poured 5 inches or so below the grade where the tile was going to be so it was level with the wood. The entire bedroom or 2 1/4 RO was cupped, still cupped a month later. I said, "I ain't pulling that thing up, you crazy person. Could be pandora's box under there." The lady's house was full of expensive paintings and furniture. Should have seen the looks on the restorations guys faces when I spelled out M O L D!
Payback time!! LOL
ving on 1/31/2012
edited by grooving on 1/31/2012
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1/31/2012 8:19:50 AM
Selva Lee Tucker
Posts: 161
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TDMAC wrote:
YEAH SELVA Restored Rest orators are revealed resorption of total restoration and regulatory inspectors of resonators! I agree!!
"Yea, yea, yea, I just dropped in to see what condition my condition was in."
Ok Kim, I will behave.
You know, we need a "playroom" here. You know, where we can also make up lies about the people.
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"Life is just too much damn fun to die"
slt
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1/31/2012 8:27:42 AM
David Harrison
Moderator
Posts: 197
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TDMAC wrote:
YEAH SELVA Restored Rest orators are revealed resorption of total restoration and regulatory inspectors of resonators! I agree!!
Behave or I'll have your Medical M card revoked.... :-)
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1/31/2012 10:09:25 AM
floordoc808
Posts: 5
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"A moisture test was done in a couple of places, but not all over or in all rooms."
If the moisture test method used was not ASTM F1869-11 Standard Test Method for Measuring Moisture Vapor Emission Rate of Concrete Subfloor Using Anhydrous Calcium Chloride &/or ASTM F2170-11 Standard Test Method for Determining Relative Humidity in Concrete Floor Slabs Using in situ Probes?
Then the testing performed was meaningless!
Grooving nailed it when he said, "Slabs that have been wet from flooding can take three times longer to dry out than a newly poured slab."
Who determined or stated, the concrete slab was ready for wood flooring to be installed?
This person would be the responsible party.
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1/31/2012 11:25:48 AM
TDMAC
Posts: 528
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Darn, Dan,
I sold My Medical M card to a Restorer. Got big bucks!! Now I am in the same condition as Selva .
This discussion about Restoration companies is a very good thread as far as I am concerned. It would take me 4 hours to revisit the many egregious errors that I have seen, that so many of those companies have caused regarding hardwood flooring.
Their lack of specific knowledge and seemingly intentional carelessness cause insurance companies to pay for losses that never should happen. hmmm?
I am now involved with a similar scenario that has caused the client far too much grief and time loss & disruption in their home!.
Maybe this forum discussion can help some clients that have water damage to their homes investigate the 'Restoration " companies that their Insurance Agent sends out.
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1/31/2012 1:35:25 PM
tulsa
Posts: 4
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TDMAC wrote:
Kim States that it is a concrete slab with a wood sub floor over the top. How attached? . Wow that is a situation right there for detailed Inspection examination! I can only speculate that the flood damaged the oak flooring and then penetrated the plywood 'sub-floor' over the concrete. The plywood was then dried out for a few months??
Is there still heavy moisture on the concrete at the bottom of that ply sub floor? Was that checked before another floor was installed over that previously wet plywood sub floor?
That sounds very questionable to me. An inspector with a probe meter should do some investigation on just who authorized that sub-floor over the concrete was dry and the slab was dry. Hmmmm
I have done many ply sub floor systems over concrete in my 40 years. Dry out of that sub floor, as explained is NOT an option; It should have been removed.
My 2 cents from the sketchy information here.
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1/31/2012 1:45:14 PM
tulsa
Posts: 4
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In Tulsa OK, where would you find an independent inspector to evaluate the current staus of the floor. As far as the existing plywood, it was ripped out until they said they reached dry wood, Then after the drying, new plywood was repaced in the old sections and new plywood applied in the bedrom and study whre the new flooring was laid. We were told by the restoration company that the concrete was dry before any installation occurred. In addition to the readings being within normal (whatever that means) we are being told by one of there flooring people that the cupping is being caused because it is winter and it is a dry cupping not wet. And then we are being told by the other that they aren't sure what is cauing it, but that we should let it go through 2 winters, and maybe take out some boards randomly while we wait to see what happens. This was as you have assumed an insurance claim.
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1/31/2012 4:13:05 PM
grooving
Posts: 483
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Key answers needed AGAIN are, vapor retarder under plywood, what name, how thick. How was the ply installed, fastened or floated or glued and with what glue? Moisture content of plywod and hardwood at time of install. Whats the rh then and now?
I assume no one really tested the concrete properly as mentioned before.
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