Advertisement

Hardwood Floors Forum

Welcome to the HF Forum.
If you are new to the forum,
you must register a free account
before you can post.

 Login Name:

 Password:

 
register | lost password   open id
Messages in this topic - RSS

Home » Sanding & Finishing » Options for Hartco Pattern Plus impregnated floors

Anything related to sanding or finishing.
10/7/2011 11:24:09 PM

holly20
holly20
Posts: 5
I am moving into a home with Hartco Pattern Plus floors in curry stain. I am told they are good floors and worth saving. What are my options? I would love to refinish them and make them darker. I am trying to do my research, but I have read some stuff that says it's possible to re-stain and others say it will not take new stain. I've read that you would buff or disk sand the floors, not drum sand. Then use a Dura Seal stain and finish with Bona Traffic. I live in Austin, TX and am really having trouble getting a clear picture of my options. Overall, the floors are in decent condition, but just haven't been maintained. I would really appreciate any information you can give me. What would you do with the floors? Thank you so much.
0 permalink
10/7/2011 11:50:39 PM

TDMAC
TDMAC
Posts: 1359
Hartco Pattern Plus 2000 is a 2 ply with oak fillets on the back and NO top coat urethane. They are Acrylic Impregnated under 2000 lbs pressure into the red oak fiber cells. I have screened, buffed and worked Dura Seal with solvent in it the waxed it to a Lustre thousands of jobs. The manufacturer has its own mix to buff in. It is a commercial wearing floor but when it gets dull tou must buff it. The Mfgr has a spray buff that was acrilyc top coat like 'mop n glo" bad news as it built up with repeated use.
Sanding with a 8" belt can be done. Only use an 80 grit then screen with 80 & 120. Staining it darker wont work!!!! It will not penetrate!! It is a great floor but it is what is is. 12 yrs ago Hartco came out with pattern plus 5000. It is a 5 ply with thin wearlayer!!! Dont sand it!! It came with a urethane finish. It is still viable and now called Premium performance. Still impregnated but urethane finsih. doesnt make sense to do both . Go figure. It is an Armstrong product since they bought out Hartco.
+1 permalink
10/8/2011 11:20:08 AM

holly20
holly20
Posts: 5
Thanks so much for responding. What do you suggest I do to the floor? I understand that it won't go darker, but can I sand the floor and apply a clear oil to bring back the original color? Thanks!
0 permalink
10/8/2011 2:17:55 PM

jonjon
jonjon
Posts: 17
I have sanded several 2 ply pattern plus floors. We did 80 grit on our 8 in. Hummel then screened with 120 using the trio multi disc sander. Only sealer and finish, no stain as it won't take. They turned out beautiful.

Jon
edited by jonjon on 10/8/2011
+1 permalink
10/8/2011 3:38:04 PM

holly20
holly20
Posts: 5
Thank you for the great information. I was so frustrated, but now feel very encouraged. Thank you so much!
0 permalink
10/8/2011 3:40:28 PM

holly20
holly20
Posts: 5
Also- how much should it cost to sand, seal and finish? How long should it take? Thanks again!
0 permalink
10/9/2011 12:06:34 AM

TDMAC
TDMAC
Posts: 1359
Holly,
What state are you in?
In California a good contractor that will NOT cut through the wear layer can sand and finish for $3.50 to $4.00 . I would only do an Oil Modified Urethane as that has worked well and not popped the grain. The color will come up nicely and maintenance will be easy with 3 coats , last one satin. Also haw may rooms are involved?
TDMAC
0 permalink
10/9/2011 12:08:29 AM

TDMAC
TDMAC
Posts: 1359
Holly, I can recommend someone in your area that used to work for me. email me ...tdmac@valleyhardwoodflooring.com
0 permalink
10/9/2011 4:38:21 PM

holly20
holly20
Posts: 5
I am in Austin, TX. The floor is in all of the main living areas - den, dining, kitchen, breakfast area and a hallway. About 870 sqft. How long should this process take? Any recommendations in Austin? Thanks for your help.
0 permalink
10/9/2011 7:53:49 PM

TDMAC
TDMAC
Posts: 1359
Holly,
send me your email address to tdmac@valleyhardwoodflooring.com. I will let you know my contact
0 permalink
12/17/2011 8:41:48 AM

deecee
deecee
Posts: 1
Hi, I just saw this thread, so am hoping TDMAC might know of someone in the D.C. area that can provide guidance on Hartco flooring that was installed in 1988.

The floor was installed (glue) on concrete and is in good shape in most places, but want to add another 250sf of flooring and make it look seamless/color/finish match. There is only one place with some wear through the finish. A color places where there was a some water staining and glue loosened (in closet areas) that just needs repair. Think it is 3/8" thick and width of plank seems to be about 4.5" an oak in the natural finish. If anybody has some advice on how to proceed, matching product, would be grateful.

Thanks!
0 permalink
12/17/2011 1:43:12 PM

TDMAC
TDMAC
Posts: 1359
Deecee
I lived in Alexandria -Groveton in the late 60's. All apartments had 9x 9 hardwood parquet.
1988 Hartco Pattern Plus 2000 is a 2 ply product that is 4.5" wide. Correct. Ginger or Curry were the colors. It is Acrylic Impregnated and very tough but hard to maintain unless you knew the tricks.
Armstrong has acquired Hartco and Bruce and DO have a product called Premium Plus that may be closest to your floor ....but it is urethane finished. Your old floor would be dull next to it. I know it will not "match" but turned direction it may blend well. Look for an Armstrong dealer in your area. Your old Pattern Plus can be sanded and finished with Oil Urethane ( I have done many-successfully) IF you can find someone to do the whole job! I do not know anyone in the DC area but the fellow I sent Holly is close, I believe.
Tom
www.valleyhardwoodflooring.com
0 permalink
1/17/2012 8:45:59 PM

ggp
ggp
Posts: 1
TDMAC wrote:
...Armstrong has acquired Hartco and Bruce and DO have a product called Premium Plus that may be closest to your floor ....but it is urethane finished.
Tom
www.valleyhardwoodflooring.com


Thank you, Tom, for your knowledgeable posts!

We had Hartco Pattern Plus 5000 (maple) installed in 1995 in our kitchen and dining room, and I gather from your comments that this same product is now sold as Amrstrong's "Premier Performance" line. Its hardness has been fine, but our floor contractor was never able to solve its susceptibility to water spots. For 15 years or so, our workaround has been to clean it every six months with Hartco Wipe Clean (now unavailable), apply Hartco Spray Tone, and then apply Hartco Pattern Plus Shine. Is low-odor mineral spirits the best replacement for Hartco Wipe Clean? Is Dura Seal Neutral Liquid Wax the best replacement for Hartco Spray Tone? Is Armstrong Shinekeeper the best replacement for Hartco Pattern Plus Shine?

We were thinking about stripping, sanding, and refinishing this floor with a lower-maintenance coating. But, it sounds like you would not recommend doing that.

We would appreciate your advice.

Gary
0 permalink
1/18/2012 5:17:56 PM

TDMAC
TDMAC
Posts: 1359
Gary,
Thank you for the compliment. I do enjoy our trade still after 40 years. Actually wish we were doing more like 6 yrs ago!
I do believe that in 1995 only Hartco Pattern Plus 2000 was available. As great as it was, it is exactly as you describe to maintain.. A pain in your 6. The Pattern Plus 5000 came out later. It had the Urethane finish and it was a 5 ply that can never be sanded with the thin top wear layer. It should be re coated as needed every 15 or 20 years.
There is a maintenance process with a commercial buffer that will take some intense explanation. email me at tdmac@valleyhardwoodflooring.com. I will detail that process if you care to go that way. You really cannot hurt the old 2000 and the results are very nice.
Sanding and finishing is a professional process that some can and some cannot properly preform. I would advise the buffing process I will detail to you.
0 permalink
4/10/2012 2:10:21 PM

fckoby
fckoby
Posts: 1
Hello to all,

My wife and I moved into a house that we had built in 1989 in the Detroit metropolitan area. The kitchen floors are Hartco Pattern Plus in Curry. The floors have been great but now need some TLC. We are finishing a kitchen remodel project and are looking for ways to "refresh" the look of the floors. My definition of refresh would be clean and polish the flooring. There has been some sun fading near the doorwall. We have used the Hartco products to maintain the flooring in the past, but now think that some professional guidance/assistance is in order. Any thoughts and assistance you may provide will be sincerely appreciated. Please let me know if you know anyone who is capable in assisting us.

Frank
0 permalink
4/10/2012 5:34:54 PM

TDMAC
TDMAC
Posts: 1359
Frank and to many others with Hartco Pattern Plus 2000 acrylic Impregnated pressure treated floors. Note; These are my own remedies from years of practice. I have redone many thousands of ft of this product. It is a well made product but the upkeep has its drawbacks. The hardness is excellent.
#1. many folks started using the Pattern Plus (PP Shine which is an acrylic [ mop n glo] type top coating. repeated usage over time would build up, darken the floor with the dirt mixed in and acrylic will easily scratch off. A good ammonia cleaner stripper was not offered by Hartco. Some Janitorial stores might have a good one bu that is messy and needs a buffer and wet pick up. Getting this floor that wet will cause possible damage!!
When that build up is too thick the floor must be sanded or screened with 80 grit , then 120 grit. It is very tedious and the screens will load up. That is the first problem. I have sanded many PP Floors like that then go to my #4 below.
#2 was the PP spray buff. It was a decent Linseed oil, solvent spray mix but needed a professional buffer to really work in the product. #3 was the client usage of water base cleaners. That dried the surface and the surface became very dry after time. Everyone will note that PP will water spot. Those can be buffed or screened out!
I did have one lady use good old tree wax and her floor looked great but had a build up of that and needed constant buffing as it scuffed.
#4 Our method was usually wet buffing a mix of 20% Dura Seal 210 penetrating finish with 20% Dura finish Wax or Wax n Clean ( not available in Ca). now. And 60% paint thinner. Squirt that mix from a squirt bottle onto the floor and buff in area by area with Red pad till no swirls are left. A 13 " buffer is minimum size for weight. We use a 16" buffer. Sometimes a more aggressive pad could be used, blue or green. then dry buffing that out an hour later with a white pad will usually do the trick. Fred in Florida bought a buffer on my advice and is buffing his own floors. That process may be needed yearly.


If I get any more National email hits on this process, I will soon make a cd to sell!

Continuing: Faded areas may not come out unless the floor is sanded. Sometimes hand screening with a 120 under a sanding hand pad will work before wet buffing. Sometimes wet sanding will work.
#5. Sanding the floors with a commercial sander should be only by a real pro with an 8" belt sander with a 60 or 80 grit and a light touch.
THE WEAR layer of that PP2000 2 ply is the thickness of a nickle and can easily be sanded as we have many jobs. We have NEVER cut through that wear layer. Edging is also a real trained pro job. Then we screen with a 16" buffer with 80 & 120 and then apply ONLY Dura Seal Oil 3 coats ...last satin coat looks and wears very well , & easy to maintain.
I will charge $4.50 to $5.00 per ft in my Central Ca. area. depending on complexities and size. Usually 4 to 5 day process.
I will be available to be flown to any destination by any one needing my services. Coach is Ok, with steak and wine upon arrival. Decent accommodations are also required!smile
I have noted that some PP5000 5 ply was made with out the manufacturers "Permion" finish. Sanding that PP would be very problematic as the wear layer is a DIME.
To all my Professional compatriots out there. This is a great paid process to help these folks in need. It is Not really hard to do either. BOTH of my daughters went to college doing these $$ paid buffs besides my own team partners have now for years.
TDMAC
0 permalink
10/14/2012 5:37:23 PM

Vern
Vern
Posts: 1
I need to purchase some of the Armstrong Pattern Plus Shine polish for acrylic impregnanted pattern plus 5000 hardwood floors without the Permion finish. I understand it is no sold. What product has replaced it and do you have a suggested store in Fresno, CA that I could go to purchase it. I need about four 32 fl oz.
0 permalink
10/14/2012 5:58:44 PM

TDMAC
TDMAC
Posts: 1359
Vern, email me directly tdmac@valleyhardwoodflooring.com or call 559-275-7555 I have a possible solution
0 permalink

Home » Sanding & Finishing » Options for Hartco Pattern Plus impregnated floors



CONNECT WITH HF
FEATURED SUPPLIERS